Space Monkey
IL PARTITO TI OSSERVA
Il nostro ministro degli esteri è a Kiev a nome dell'UE per cercare di evitare un massacro a Donetsk. Poroshenko sembra intenzionato ad accettare una resa dei ribelli che preferiranno combattere fino all'ultimo.
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Prima migrazione effettuata, dettagli qui: Migrazione Server
Esteri Crisi Ucraina
- Creatore Discussione Mikhail Mengsk
- Data di Inizio
Contrammiraglio Oss
Chosen one
Comunque alla faccia del cioccolataio sto Poroshenko, avere le palle di andare a vedere il bluff di Putin non era mica da tutti.
Redual
Brontolo
Nohant, bambino mio, non esiste nel mondo il bene e il male.
L'ucraina e chi ci sta dietro non sono i buoni e la russia non sono cattivi.
Il referendum ha la validità che può aver avuto il golpe della piazza maidan, è chi ci va dietro che gli da peso oppure no, tu probabilmente sei ubriaco della propaganda atlantica.
I militari russi non sono terroristi, sono soldati, ciò che hanno fatto in crimea è al di là di ogni ragionevole dubbio un azione di riduzione del conflitto, se la crimea oggi non è martoriata come il donbass è perchè sono intervenuti i russi.
Un pò come la rivolta del maidan non poteva essere tutta un oscura manovra golpista occidentale per sovvertire timoshenko, la ribellione orientale non è una azione terroristica di mercenari e terroristi. Entrambe le situazioni affondano in una situazione di disagio sociale gigantesco in cui si mescolano culture diverse.
Alla fine l'ucraina non è altro che "un espressione geografica" nel bene o nel male che la si voglia intendere, non è una nazione unitaria con una popolazione ed una cultura unica e con confini chiari e netti.
Mikhail Mengsk
MSPAINT OVERTYRANT
Con tutto l'occidente a dissuadere Putin dall'intervenire in suolo Ucraino con le forze armate?
Ha le palle a stelle e strisce
Mikhail Mengsk
MSPAINT OVERTYRANT
La zona controllata dai rivoltosi è sempre più ridotta, anche se aumentano le perdite di soldati ed equipaggiamento degli ucraini. Un colpo di mortaio (?) è arrivato di là dal confine uccidendo un russo e ferendo due donne, Putin ha minacciato ritorsioni.
Mikhail Mengsk
MSPAINT OVERTYRANT
Può essere; dicono volasse a 6500m e la portata dell'Igla-S è di 6000m.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-reports-progress-against-pro-russia-separatists-1405340926
http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-reports-progress-against-pro-russia-separatists-1405340926
Mikhail Mengsk
MSPAINT OVERTYRANT
Dicono abbattuto da un aereo, mah.
Dicono anche che hanno abbattuto un SU-25 ucraino con un aria-aria, e a questo credo senza problemi.
La Russia nega l'abbattimento del jet, non ho trovato nienjte su questo aereo di linea malese.
Dicono anche che hanno abbattuto un SU-25 ucraino con un aria-aria, e a questo credo senza problemi.
La Russia nega l'abbattimento del jet, non ho trovato nienjte su questo aereo di linea malese.
Mikhail Mengsk
MSPAINT OVERTYRANT
Che i filorussi non hanno, come non hanno altre armi capaci di abbattere aerei che volano così alti. A meno che non li abbiano catturati all'esercito ucraino, e non risulta oltre che essere estremamente difficile. O glieli abbiano forniti i russi, ma visto che è un sistema abbastanza vistoso è altrettanto poco probabile che si siano scoperti in maniera così ovvia: gli Igla bastano e avanzano ai filorussi, un sistema SA-11 richiede personale molto competente che non puoi trovare fra gli insorti.
Space Monkey
IL PARTITO TI OSSERVA
Tra gli insorti ci sono miliziani con decine di anni di esperienza alle spalle. Pensa solo agli ex operativi russi. Se così non fosse sarebbero stati spazzati via giorni fa e invece dimostrano capacità, coordinazione e disciplina da professionisti. Qualche settimana fa inoltre si erano viste foto di alcuni sistemi anti aerei avanzati.
Mikhail Mengsk
MSPAINT OVERTYRANT
Un conto è essere ex operativi tutt'altro saper operare un sisteam antiaereo complesso come l'SA-11. A meno che tu non ci abbia già lavorato in passato o sia affiancato da uno specialista non penso proprio tu possa utilizzarlo.
Space Monkey
IL PARTITO TI OSSERVA
Questo accadeva poche ore prima dellabbimento del trasporto civile:
A Ukrainian fighter jet was shot down by an air-to-air missile from a Russian plane and Ukrainian troops were fired upon by missiles from a village inside Russia, a spokesman for Ukraine's Security Council said Thursday.
The alleged episodes mark what Ukraine says is mounting evidence that Moscow is directly supporting the separatist insurgents in eastern Ukraine who have been seen to have substantial quantities of powerful weapons in recent weeks.
Security Council spokesman Andrei Lysenko said the pilot of the Sukhoi-25 jet hit by the air-to-air missile Wednesday evening was forced to bail after his jet was shot down. He said the rockets launched at Ukrainian troops were fired from the Russian village of Kuibyshevo.
Pro-Russia rebels, meanwhile, claimed responsibility for strikes Wednesday on two Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 jets.
The Defense Ministry said the second jet was hit by a portable surface-to-air missile, but added the pilot was unscathed and managed to land his plane safely
Moscow denies Western charges that is supporting the separatists or sowing unrest in its neighbor. The Russian Ministry of Defense could not be reached for comment Thursday about the latest accusations and Russia's foreign ministry did not respond to multiple requests for comment.
Earlier this week, Ukraine said a military transport plane was shot down Monday by a missile fired from Russian territory. Security Service chief Valentyn Nalyvaichenko said he had "unconditional evidence" that Russia was involved in downing that craft.
The rebels are known to possess portable anti-aircraft rocket launchers, but Ukrainian officials say that kind of weapon would have been unable to reach the plane at the altitude at which it was flying Monday. Aviation experts, however, have questioned whether the stricken transport plane was flying at the altitude Ukrainian officials had claimed.
Although the pro-Russia insurgents fighting the government in Kiev suffered a major setback earlier this month when they abandoned their stronghold in the city of Slovyansk, they still appear well-supplied militarily and have incurred heavy losses among government troops.
An Associated Press reporter on Thursday saw seven rebel-owned tanks parked at a gas station outside the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne. In the town, he also observed a Buk missile system, which can fire missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet).
Ukraine's border service said Thursday it has evidence that five Grad multiple-rocket launchers and two armored personnel carriers were brought across the border Wednesday from Russia.
"Having crossed 60 meters (yards) over the border, they fired in the direction of Ukrainian army positions," the border service said in a statement. "In the location from which they fired, we found fragments of missiles and the traces of burned ground."
The U.S. slapped tougher sanctions against Russia on Wednesday for its actions in Ukraine. That prompted a strong reaction Thursday from Russian President Vladimir Putin, who said the sanctions will hamper bilateral relations and hurt not only Russian but also American businesses.
Russia's benchmark MICEX was down 2.4 percent in trading late Thursday after news of the sanctions while Russia's biggest oil company, Rosneft, was 4.4 percent down.
The U.S. sanctions target Rosneft and another major Russian energy firms, a pair of powerful financial institutions, eight weapons firms and four individuals.
The U.S. penalties, however, stopped short of the most stringent actions the West has threatened, which would fully cut off key sectors of Russia's oil-dependent economy. But officials said those steps were still on the table if Russia fails to abide by the West's demands to stop its support for the pro-Russia insurgents.
A Ukrainian fighter jet was shot down by an air-to-air missile from a Russian plane and Ukrainian troops were fired upon by missiles from a village inside Russia, a spokesman for Ukraine's Security Council said Thursday.
The alleged episodes mark what Ukraine says is mounting evidence that Moscow is directly supporting the separatist insurgents in eastern Ukraine who have been seen to have substantial quantities of powerful weapons in recent weeks.
Security Council spokesman Andrei Lysenko said the pilot of the Sukhoi-25 jet hit by the air-to-air missile Wednesday evening was forced to bail after his jet was shot down. He said the rockets launched at Ukrainian troops were fired from the Russian village of Kuibyshevo.
Pro-Russia rebels, meanwhile, claimed responsibility for strikes Wednesday on two Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 jets.
The Defense Ministry said the second jet was hit by a portable surface-to-air missile, but added the pilot was unscathed and managed to land his plane safely
Moscow denies Western charges that is supporting the separatists or sowing unrest in its neighbor. The Russian Ministry of Defense could not be reached for comment Thursday about the latest accusations and Russia's foreign ministry did not respond to multiple requests for comment.
Earlier this week, Ukraine said a military transport plane was shot down Monday by a missile fired from Russian territory. Security Service chief Valentyn Nalyvaichenko said he had "unconditional evidence" that Russia was involved in downing that craft.
The rebels are known to possess portable anti-aircraft rocket launchers, but Ukrainian officials say that kind of weapon would have been unable to reach the plane at the altitude at which it was flying Monday. Aviation experts, however, have questioned whether the stricken transport plane was flying at the altitude Ukrainian officials had claimed.
Although the pro-Russia insurgents fighting the government in Kiev suffered a major setback earlier this month when they abandoned their stronghold in the city of Slovyansk, they still appear well-supplied militarily and have incurred heavy losses among government troops.
An Associated Press reporter on Thursday saw seven rebel-owned tanks parked at a gas station outside the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne. In the town, he also observed a Buk missile system, which can fire missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet).
Ukraine's border service said Thursday it has evidence that five Grad multiple-rocket launchers and two armored personnel carriers were brought across the border Wednesday from Russia.
"Having crossed 60 meters (yards) over the border, they fired in the direction of Ukrainian army positions," the border service said in a statement. "In the location from which they fired, we found fragments of missiles and the traces of burned ground."
The U.S. slapped tougher sanctions against Russia on Wednesday for its actions in Ukraine. That prompted a strong reaction Thursday from Russian President Vladimir Putin, who said the sanctions will hamper bilateral relations and hurt not only Russian but also American businesses.
Russia's benchmark MICEX was down 2.4 percent in trading late Thursday after news of the sanctions while Russia's biggest oil company, Rosneft, was 4.4 percent down.
The U.S. sanctions target Rosneft and another major Russian energy firms, a pair of powerful financial institutions, eight weapons firms and four individuals.
The U.S. penalties, however, stopped short of the most stringent actions the West has threatened, which would fully cut off key sectors of Russia's oil-dependent economy. But officials said those steps were still on the table if Russia fails to abide by the West's demands to stop its support for the pro-Russia insurgents.